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grammarwoman) wrote2016-05-17 03:25 pm
grammarwoman) wrote2016-05-17 03:25 pm
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Captain America: Civil War - A whole lot of Processing and Blathering
It's been just over a week since I've watched "Captain America: Civil War", and I still haven't decided if I liked it or not. I'm planning on taking the Emperor to see it soon (ADHD/ASD 11 year olds who have an opinion about EVERYTHING and can't share it at a whisper volume are not the ideal companions for the first viewing or opening weekend of a movie) so I can work through my ambivalence. First, though, I wanted to get my thoughts down so I can visit the multitude of tabs I have open with other people's reactions.
I went into this movie with the fervent hope that it wouldn't suck. When compared to Age of Ultron, it cleared that low bar easily. However, any movie held up next to CA: Winter Soldier is going to suffer, and this had its fair share of flaws. My issue is, I'm well aware that I am very emotionally invested in the characters and world-building of the MCU, which means I can't tell if my reaction is that of disappointed fangirl, or disappointed fan of stories and movies in general.
My biggest problem with the film is that this was not a Captain America movie. I agree with the people referring to this as Avengers 2.5. I wish I could have seen a version of this film that 100% concentrated on Cap and Bucky (Where is my "Up All Night to Get Bucky" heist?), not 50% actual plot, 50% setting up future movies by (I can only assume) studio (and perhaps RDJ) interference. The Spidey and Tony show was cute for about 5 minutes, but then it keep dragging on and on. And On. AND WE GET IT ALREADY WITH THE SONY APPEASEMENT. It's irritating enough that we're getting a third freaking reboot of Spider-man before any female-led movies. But another white male teen origin? Couldn't we have had Miles Morales? Or Spider-Gwen? Or anything new? UGH. I liked the small doses of Spider-Man in the fight scenes, but when I watch this at home, I will definitely be fast-forwarding through Spidey's home life with Tony's mentoring.
There were lots of things I did enjoy. T'Challa was marvelous; I think he brought a fresh energy to the group, and great fight dynamics, and unlike Spider-Man, his introduction made me look forward to his solo movie. Ant-Man actually had a purpose, chemistry, and humor, unlike in his mediocre movie (seriously, aside from the flashback opening, and Hope being all kinds of enjoyable to watch, that movie was so dull). They made Black Widow aligning herself with Iron Man work as a storyline, with the back-stabbing that I was expecting from her. Hawkeye seemed to be having fun kicking ass, as the story treaded lightly around his farm background. (I imagined a mic drop from the Russos on that front, because unlike Joss, they actually watched the previous films and incorporated the character details. GASP.)
I loved all the adapted comic details, like Vision and Scarlet Witch's tip-toeing into a relationship (though for as much as they emphasized how young Wanda is, they should also have balanced their presentation of Vision, like with a play on how he's only a year old or something, because otherwise he comes off as much older and creepy). I squeed at Falcon's Redwing drone: such a brilliant way to nod to his comic counterpart and help him level up as a tactical badass.
The Steve and Bucky show was what I was there for, total <3 <3 <3. I could watch them all day. Sebastian Stan's wounded bird portrayal was so perfect for me; watching him struggle against his activation code was pure anguish. And Steve! STEVE YOU BEAUTIFUL BRUISER. Nothing was going to get between him and his Bucky, which is as it should be. Fighting each other, fighting in tandem, just being around each other – that's definitely all going in a supercut when I get my hands on the source. Not getting to see more of them was a big part of my disappointment with this movie. Because TONY.
I've heard stories that RDJ muscled his way into a larger role in this movie. I would have given him more of the benefit of the doubt, but considering how much screen time was spent lingering on Tony, I walked out super pissed. This is part of why I want to see it again: am I disappointed on a fangirl level that he diluted my OTP time, or let down by the storytelling? I just don't know.
I mean, one of the biggest issues with Age of Ultron is that Whedon never satisfactorily justified how media-savvy Tony would have enabled a malevolent AI without any safeguards. Sure, the guy has an ego bigger than the Pentagon budget, but the Tony of Iron Man 3 built remote self-destruct options into all his suits. AoU Tony stuck his fingers in his ears and went LALALA CAN'T HEAR YOU.
I wanted Civil War Tony to address his actions, and he did, but in the way that an over-protective mom would say "I'm cold, so you need a sweater". Only in Tony's case, that was "I'm unable to acknowledge my guilt and the fact that Ultron was all my fault, so I'm going to displace it onto you all and make it everybody's problem." For as sad as I was that Pepper wasn't in the movie, I appreciated the real-world consequences for Tony's bull-headed actions. Tony is the only one out the whole lineup whose direct actions, over and over, have led to massive casualties and property damage. In Avengers, Steve instructed the police to corral the civilians and tried to keep the Chitauri contained. Tony played tag with the space whales and led them in a building-crushing route. In AoU, the Hulk's South African rampage (induced by Wanda, who herself had been tortured and wasn't exactly in her right mind) might have been lessened if Tony hadn’t wanted to try out his Hulkbuster suit, and of course Ultron and his consequent destructive fury was all Tony's fault as well. The opening gambit and fallout with Crossbones in Civil War wasn't entirely due to the team; Crossbones was wired to blow in the middle of a huge market, and you could argue that Wanda throwing him into a building cut down on the casualties.
To me, Tony dragged everyone into the Accords so he could avoid owning up to his own shit, including knuckling under to Thunderbolt Ross whom he'd previously thwarted. (Really, Tony, what would Bruce say?) I'm still torn if that bit of plotting worked for me, that Tony's avoidance of self-analysis would overpower his dislike of working with/for the government.
I know the Russos wanted the audience to be torn in their loyalties, to acknowledge that both sides had legitimate reasons to do what they did. So yes, I will grudgingly agree that a group of superpowered globetrotting people trying to fight bad guys around the world could be construed as vigilantes, and could benefit from some oversight. However, I wanted someone in the movie to address that the current political climate is still riddled with HYDRA, and no one wants them directing any kind of action. Plus, a committee in charge? They would still be deliberating action as the Chitauri/Black Elves/Thanos rained destruction around them.
Also, I still don't agree with setting Ross up as the Secretary. He brings a lot of history and storyline with him from the Hulk movie, as well as past interactions with Tony, yet almost none of that made it to the screen. What was the point of using him? Are they playing the long game and eventually going to bring him in as Red Hulk? Honestly, that's one of the plot points that I was anticipating, that the team would have to join together to battle a raging Red Hulk after Ross blew his top at being defied. The story should have either given us more "why it matters that this is Ross here" lines, or used someone else, because he was just distracting to me. (Also distracting and confusing was Martin Freeman's character being named Ross. What was the point of him? I realize he's another figure from the comics, but for someone not deeply immersed in Marvel history and/or fandom adjacent, that was a WTF.)
So those are the elephants in the room that are crowding out unfettered fangirl squee. I have to give massive props to more things that did work for me, like the fight scenes. They weren't bloated CGI blurs like AoU, but team vignettes that really crackled. There were unique fighting styles, great dialogue, and wonderful pacing. I loved how the non-superpowered ladies got some quality action time, as Black Widow and Sharon Carter held their own in fights, and then some. Speaking of Carter, even though I had heard rumors about Peggy's funeral, I still teared up at the ceremony and Steve being one of the pallbearers. (FIXIT FIC NEEDED STAT.) The Steve/Sharon kiss was a little pasted on and weird, but I think it's a requirement that the ostensible star of the comic book movie gets a smooch or two. (Shoulda been Bucky, is all I'm saying.) It could have been worse, I suppose. (JOSS!)
I was expecting some kind of plot twist, given the Russos' masterful secret-within-a-secret of Winter Soldier (walking in smug that I knew that Winter Soldier was Bucky, then being gobsmacked with the HYDRA reveal), but I was thinking about the Red Hulk, or Steve dying and Bucky taking up his shield. Having Zemo be a grieving, cunning Sokovian out for diabolical revenge, faking us out with the anticipation of a massive Winter Soldier battle, only to have it be an intensely personal showdown, was a fantastic development. (I'm still side-eying the point that it was a shocking reveal for Tony that the Winter Soldier killed his parents. You're telling me that in the two years since Natasha dumped all of HYDRA's dirty laundry online, Tony didn't have data scrubbers mining every last little piece of information that might have involved him and his family? Like Stane's involvement in the car crash or manipulation of Stark Industries until his demise? Sorry, NOPE. Does not compute.)
It was so refreshing, too, that T'Challa wasn't a one note machine of revenge, but changed his course, moving his target away from Bucky and to the real culprit, and then arresting Zemo instead of killing him.
I should feel bad for enjoying the whumpathon that was Steve and Bucky's brutal beatdown of Tony, but UNNNNGGGG. Watching them be in sync like that was SO GOOD FOR ME. And the revival of "I could do this all day"? *flails* In my head, Steve will be spending many sleepless hours in front of Bucky's Wakandan cryo chamber, just to be close, and urging T'Challa to build Bucky a new and improved arm when it's safe for him to come out. I want all the fic where the Avengers build a clubhouse in Wakanda with a big sign that says "NO TONYS ALLOWED".
So after 1800+ words (!), I still can't put my finger on where I fall on the scale from love to loathe. I feel like that there are the bones and muscles of a good movie here (Steve! Bucky!) but someone over-accessorized it (TONY) and buried it under layers of unnecessary character time (Ross, Spider-Man). I don't normally see a movie a second time in the theater that I don’t absolutely love, but I feel like I owe it to myself to see it again, knowing what I know and not letting the good parts be smothered by my irritation at the rest.
What did you all think?
I went into this movie with the fervent hope that it wouldn't suck. When compared to Age of Ultron, it cleared that low bar easily. However, any movie held up next to CA: Winter Soldier is going to suffer, and this had its fair share of flaws. My issue is, I'm well aware that I am very emotionally invested in the characters and world-building of the MCU, which means I can't tell if my reaction is that of disappointed fangirl, or disappointed fan of stories and movies in general.
My biggest problem with the film is that this was not a Captain America movie. I agree with the people referring to this as Avengers 2.5. I wish I could have seen a version of this film that 100% concentrated on Cap and Bucky (Where is my "Up All Night to Get Bucky" heist?), not 50% actual plot, 50% setting up future movies by (I can only assume) studio (and perhaps RDJ) interference. The Spidey and Tony show was cute for about 5 minutes, but then it keep dragging on and on. And On. AND WE GET IT ALREADY WITH THE SONY APPEASEMENT. It's irritating enough that we're getting a third freaking reboot of Spider-man before any female-led movies. But another white male teen origin? Couldn't we have had Miles Morales? Or Spider-Gwen? Or anything new? UGH. I liked the small doses of Spider-Man in the fight scenes, but when I watch this at home, I will definitely be fast-forwarding through Spidey's home life with Tony's mentoring.
There were lots of things I did enjoy. T'Challa was marvelous; I think he brought a fresh energy to the group, and great fight dynamics, and unlike Spider-Man, his introduction made me look forward to his solo movie. Ant-Man actually had a purpose, chemistry, and humor, unlike in his mediocre movie (seriously, aside from the flashback opening, and Hope being all kinds of enjoyable to watch, that movie was so dull). They made Black Widow aligning herself with Iron Man work as a storyline, with the back-stabbing that I was expecting from her. Hawkeye seemed to be having fun kicking ass, as the story treaded lightly around his farm background. (I imagined a mic drop from the Russos on that front, because unlike Joss, they actually watched the previous films and incorporated the character details. GASP.)
I loved all the adapted comic details, like Vision and Scarlet Witch's tip-toeing into a relationship (though for as much as they emphasized how young Wanda is, they should also have balanced their presentation of Vision, like with a play on how he's only a year old or something, because otherwise he comes off as much older and creepy). I squeed at Falcon's Redwing drone: such a brilliant way to nod to his comic counterpart and help him level up as a tactical badass.
The Steve and Bucky show was what I was there for, total <3 <3 <3. I could watch them all day. Sebastian Stan's wounded bird portrayal was so perfect for me; watching him struggle against his activation code was pure anguish. And Steve! STEVE YOU BEAUTIFUL BRUISER. Nothing was going to get between him and his Bucky, which is as it should be. Fighting each other, fighting in tandem, just being around each other – that's definitely all going in a supercut when I get my hands on the source. Not getting to see more of them was a big part of my disappointment with this movie. Because TONY.
I've heard stories that RDJ muscled his way into a larger role in this movie. I would have given him more of the benefit of the doubt, but considering how much screen time was spent lingering on Tony, I walked out super pissed. This is part of why I want to see it again: am I disappointed on a fangirl level that he diluted my OTP time, or let down by the storytelling? I just don't know.
I mean, one of the biggest issues with Age of Ultron is that Whedon never satisfactorily justified how media-savvy Tony would have enabled a malevolent AI without any safeguards. Sure, the guy has an ego bigger than the Pentagon budget, but the Tony of Iron Man 3 built remote self-destruct options into all his suits. AoU Tony stuck his fingers in his ears and went LALALA CAN'T HEAR YOU.
I wanted Civil War Tony to address his actions, and he did, but in the way that an over-protective mom would say "I'm cold, so you need a sweater". Only in Tony's case, that was "I'm unable to acknowledge my guilt and the fact that Ultron was all my fault, so I'm going to displace it onto you all and make it everybody's problem." For as sad as I was that Pepper wasn't in the movie, I appreciated the real-world consequences for Tony's bull-headed actions. Tony is the only one out the whole lineup whose direct actions, over and over, have led to massive casualties and property damage. In Avengers, Steve instructed the police to corral the civilians and tried to keep the Chitauri contained. Tony played tag with the space whales and led them in a building-crushing route. In AoU, the Hulk's South African rampage (induced by Wanda, who herself had been tortured and wasn't exactly in her right mind) might have been lessened if Tony hadn’t wanted to try out his Hulkbuster suit, and of course Ultron and his consequent destructive fury was all Tony's fault as well. The opening gambit and fallout with Crossbones in Civil War wasn't entirely due to the team; Crossbones was wired to blow in the middle of a huge market, and you could argue that Wanda throwing him into a building cut down on the casualties.
To me, Tony dragged everyone into the Accords so he could avoid owning up to his own shit, including knuckling under to Thunderbolt Ross whom he'd previously thwarted. (Really, Tony, what would Bruce say?) I'm still torn if that bit of plotting worked for me, that Tony's avoidance of self-analysis would overpower his dislike of working with/for the government.
I know the Russos wanted the audience to be torn in their loyalties, to acknowledge that both sides had legitimate reasons to do what they did. So yes, I will grudgingly agree that a group of superpowered globetrotting people trying to fight bad guys around the world could be construed as vigilantes, and could benefit from some oversight. However, I wanted someone in the movie to address that the current political climate is still riddled with HYDRA, and no one wants them directing any kind of action. Plus, a committee in charge? They would still be deliberating action as the Chitauri/Black Elves/Thanos rained destruction around them.
Also, I still don't agree with setting Ross up as the Secretary. He brings a lot of history and storyline with him from the Hulk movie, as well as past interactions with Tony, yet almost none of that made it to the screen. What was the point of using him? Are they playing the long game and eventually going to bring him in as Red Hulk? Honestly, that's one of the plot points that I was anticipating, that the team would have to join together to battle a raging Red Hulk after Ross blew his top at being defied. The story should have either given us more "why it matters that this is Ross here" lines, or used someone else, because he was just distracting to me. (Also distracting and confusing was Martin Freeman's character being named Ross. What was the point of him? I realize he's another figure from the comics, but for someone not deeply immersed in Marvel history and/or fandom adjacent, that was a WTF.)
So those are the elephants in the room that are crowding out unfettered fangirl squee. I have to give massive props to more things that did work for me, like the fight scenes. They weren't bloated CGI blurs like AoU, but team vignettes that really crackled. There were unique fighting styles, great dialogue, and wonderful pacing. I loved how the non-superpowered ladies got some quality action time, as Black Widow and Sharon Carter held their own in fights, and then some. Speaking of Carter, even though I had heard rumors about Peggy's funeral, I still teared up at the ceremony and Steve being one of the pallbearers. (FIXIT FIC NEEDED STAT.) The Steve/Sharon kiss was a little pasted on and weird, but I think it's a requirement that the ostensible star of the comic book movie gets a smooch or two. (Shoulda been Bucky, is all I'm saying.) It could have been worse, I suppose. (JOSS!)
I was expecting some kind of plot twist, given the Russos' masterful secret-within-a-secret of Winter Soldier (walking in smug that I knew that Winter Soldier was Bucky, then being gobsmacked with the HYDRA reveal), but I was thinking about the Red Hulk, or Steve dying and Bucky taking up his shield. Having Zemo be a grieving, cunning Sokovian out for diabolical revenge, faking us out with the anticipation of a massive Winter Soldier battle, only to have it be an intensely personal showdown, was a fantastic development. (I'm still side-eying the point that it was a shocking reveal for Tony that the Winter Soldier killed his parents. You're telling me that in the two years since Natasha dumped all of HYDRA's dirty laundry online, Tony didn't have data scrubbers mining every last little piece of information that might have involved him and his family? Like Stane's involvement in the car crash or manipulation of Stark Industries until his demise? Sorry, NOPE. Does not compute.)
It was so refreshing, too, that T'Challa wasn't a one note machine of revenge, but changed his course, moving his target away from Bucky and to the real culprit, and then arresting Zemo instead of killing him.
I should feel bad for enjoying the whumpathon that was Steve and Bucky's brutal beatdown of Tony, but UNNNNGGGG. Watching them be in sync like that was SO GOOD FOR ME. And the revival of "I could do this all day"? *flails* In my head, Steve will be spending many sleepless hours in front of Bucky's Wakandan cryo chamber, just to be close, and urging T'Challa to build Bucky a new and improved arm when it's safe for him to come out. I want all the fic where the Avengers build a clubhouse in Wakanda with a big sign that says "NO TONYS ALLOWED".
So after 1800+ words (!), I still can't put my finger on where I fall on the scale from love to loathe. I feel like that there are the bones and muscles of a good movie here (Steve! Bucky!) but someone over-accessorized it (TONY) and buried it under layers of unnecessary character time (Ross, Spider-Man). I don't normally see a movie a second time in the theater that I don’t absolutely love, but I feel like I owe it to myself to see it again, knowing what I know and not letting the good parts be smothered by my irritation at the rest.
What did you all think?
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Redwing made me squee quietly and Sam and T'Challa and Rhodey were all super awesome.
I am 100% down for the Cap and Sam and Bucky road trip movie. With occasional Nat cause she's awesome.
There were also a lot of inconsistencies that just kept throwing me out of the film too.
I wrote a lot of my feels out here: http://bethany-lauren.dreamwidth.org/449810.html
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I wanted a Cap (and Bucky) movie. This was a Cap&Bucky novelette, alas.
I hope the popularity of Sam, Rhodey, and T'Challa encourages Marvel to finally get their heads out of their asses and start promoting more characters of color (women would be nice, too). I mean, I love all their white-guys-named-Chris, but it's time for something new.
I hope we get a ton of road-trip fic with that cast of characters.
I will definitely go look at your post - thanks for including it here!
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I watched it a second time and...hmm. I liked Spiderman the second time around more. He didn't feel as much like pasted on "Hey! I've got a movie coming out!". I really just want a road trip with Natasha, Sam, Bucky, and Steve in the VW bug being chased by T'Challa. The story could have worked just fine that way too.
Sigh. I shall watch the "fast forward" version when it's on DVD. I mean, it was *better* than AoU, but, like you said. Not hard.
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I'll admit that I liked Spider-Man's contribution to the airport fight scene, but we did not need all the home life shots. We could have just had Tony say "I've got to go see a guy about a bug" and then POW SURPRISE SPIDEY.
Road trip! I want ALLLLL the road trip fic. Pie at IHOP, one room left at the motel, ALLLL OF IT.
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But it's not Avengers 4 and there was (to my mind) too much Tony, Spider-Man (whyyyyyy Peter Parker, I mean, he's the best of the three film versions we've seen, but he's also the third of the three and I legit don't care), Ant-Man, and even Wanda, Vision, and Rhodey for all that I like those three. I admit that the Russos drew a line between Iron Man 3 and Ultron in a way I didn't think was possible, but this was a Captain America film that had more in the way of Tony man pain and character development and that's frustrating.
The best parts of the film are really good, but I wanted more character beats for Steve and the characters closest to him -- Bucky, Natasha, and Sam in particular. They were at the heart of Winter Soldier and, the accords aside, the story of Steve finding Bucky is what this film is about. And it was lost in the mix of Avengers politics. And I'm definitely interested in Avengers politics! I like that kind of thing. But this wasn't the time and place for it.
T'Challa was perhaps the best drawn part of the film and I am excited where the end of the film leaves us ... Perhaps because it more or less leaves the characters I care most about (Steve, Bucky, Sam, Wanda, T'Challa, tentatively Natasha, and Sharon) all on more or less the same side.
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The Tony Manpain show is so played out. WHYYYYYY did he have so much screen time, doing things that did nothing to advance the plot, except to make us wonder "How can he keep getting away with avoiding dealing with his shit?" THERAPY, TONY. YOU HAVE THE RESOURCES.
How great would a natural progression of Winter Soldier have been? We'll never know. :(
I was not prepared to enjoy T'Challa as much as I did. Marvel legit has me looking forward to his movie, and the likelihood of Bucky (and Steve) being in it adds to that. Wakandan Avengers Clubhouse, please!
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I try to remember that at least we will have always have Bucky, Sam, and Steve getting out of a VW bug. Also the helicopter scene which probably leaves you dead of alcohol poisoning in any drinking game for this film.
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I really liked IM3, too, because it was such a great team film with character growth, and had Pepper saving Tony's ass and getting her own revenge for her kidnapping and bodily violation. (In my head canon, Tony's taking care of her Extremis meant defusing the meltdown function so she could keep it and control it better than the previous immolatees.) But somehow Tony infected the MCU with proceduralitis and had his character development reset for each subsequent movie, and that shit is both boring and irritating to watch.
Thanks, Whedon, for leaving a flaming bag of dog poop on the Russos' doorstep, so they had to clean that up instead of giving us more time with the standout Winter Soldier characters.
On a shallow note, Evans' biceps in that helicopter scene are a thing of wonder and joy. ;)